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WILT

(Advanced Member)

Beiträge: 63
Registriert seit: 21.02.08

Vivitar dc83000, Traveler DC-XZ6

Hi To Germany,

My name is Bill and I am glad to find your forum.Ich spreche nicht Deutsch, so forgive me and I hope the English speakers will put up with me.I have had a DC8300
Vivitar for 2 yrs and have just bought the DC-ZX6 from our New ALDI store in Haverfordwest.
My Camera shows a TIFF option on the Menu choices and it seems to work although the file size is smaller than the TIFF option on the 8.1 Mp camera and photoshop elements does not load the file file .Is there a firmware upgrade to solve this or can I only use JPEG.

WILT

21.02.08, 23:36:05

dl3mcj

(Moderator)

Beiträge: 7636
Registriert seit: 26.12.05

PDC-3350
GR-DX25E
DC-5300/6200/8600/80sz/XZ6/120
Slimline X6
IS-12/SZ-7
HD-10XI/DV-23HD
WC0001/...2B
MD87021
SU1071

Hi Bill,

glad to have you here - welcome!

I don't know about the differences of filesizes of dc8300 and dc-xz6. And I do not have the photoshop elements. But I tried the TIFF option of my "xz6". I opened these files with IRFAN VIEW without problems.

Try this:

open the TIF-file with IRFAN VIEW
save (save as!) it as TIF with IRFN VIEW
try to open it with photoshop elements

(I hope my english is good enough for you to understand)

Grüße aus Eching
Peter

22.02.08, 07:01:21

Kacki

(Experte)

Beiträge: 4535
Registriert seit: 21.06.04

Tevion SZ8
(August '12)
Traveler DC-XZ6
(Juni '07)
Canon EOS 400D
(Herbst '06)
Traveler DC 8300
(Herbst '05)
Traveler DC 5300
(Herbst '03)
Olympus C920Z
(Herbst '99)

We had already some discussion about the TIFF format here (sorry, in german freuen

). TIFF can handle compressed and uncompressed file formats. I HOPE that the DC-XZ6 uses the uncompressed format, otherwise the TIFF option does not make so much sense. I just use the TIFF option as a substitute for RAW. If it's true that your 8MP camera produces 'bigger' TIFF files than the 10MP DC-XZ6, that could mean that either:

- the DC-XZ6 uses a compressed TIFF format (hope not)
- your other cam uses a 36bit TIFF (is that possible?) whereas the DC-XZ6 has only a colour depth of 24bits

If PS Elements won't open the DC-XZ6 TIFFs with the right colours, I suppose that the TIFF contains an indexed colour palette which is different from the internal palette of PS. There seems to be not fix standard for that?! To overcome this - unless PS is capable of configuring the TIFF palette options - I would opt for the same solution as provided by DL3MCJ.

22.02.08, 09:21:40

WILT

(Advanced Member)

Beiträge: 63
Registriert seit: 21.02.08

Vivitar dc83000, Traveler DC-XZ6

Thanks Everyone,

I tried opening in Paintshop Pro and Success I then was able to open the file in elements.So I can now make my prints !!!How many BIG BRAND CAMERAS can do this :-

http://home.freeuk.com/wlt001/hair.jpg

I sello-taped a hair to an old watch face !!!

modified by dl3mcj: to reduce traffic I integrated the photograph into the post

Dateianhang (verkleinert):

hair.jpg (126.64 KByte | 491 mal heruntergeladen | 60.72 MByte Traffic)

22.02.08, 13:41:57

WILT

(Advanced Member)

Beiträge: 63
Registriert seit: 21.02.08

Vivitar dc83000, Traveler DC-XZ6

Do you Know if the software records images in SRGB (this is normal for image gathering devices I believe). I had assumed it was so for Traveler cameras.
WILT

22.02.08, 20:47:59

HondaNC27

(Experte)

Beiträge: 4179
Registriert seit: 07.05.06

Traveler DC 5300 / 6900 / XZ6;Analog Canon EOS500N Canon EOS 1000D;Traveler HS9; Traveler DC-5300, baugleich Maginon DC-5350

Hello WILT,

it`s nice to see you here. I use the DC-XZ6 and the tiff - format and I open the pictures with XnView 1.91.6, but it didn`t changed the colors in SRGB.

Greetings from HondaNC27 (hondaknipser)

Gruß HondaNC27

23.02.08, 06:09:42

Kacki

(Experte)

Beiträge: 4535
Registriert seit: 21.06.04

Tevion SZ8
(August '12)
Traveler DC-XZ6
(Juni '07)
Canon EOS 400D
(Herbst '06)
Traveler DC 8300
(Herbst '05)
Traveler DC 5300
(Herbst '03)
Olympus C920Z
(Herbst '99)

Hello Bill,

I compared the TIFF-files which I just made with my DC8300 (8.1 MP) and my DC-XZ6 (10.1 MP). I shot approximately the same scene with both cams (just in case compression plays a role - but it doesn't).

The picture of the 8.1MP cam has a size of 15,2 MB
The picture of the 10.1MP cam has a size of 19,0 MB

Compression is not used in both cameras. The color depth is also identical in both cases: 24 bit per pixel.

You can get all interesting information from the EXIF-header of the pictures, which can be displayed e.g. in IrfanView. This also reveals the color space (sRGB) used:

Zitat von DC8300:

ImageWidth - 3264
ImageLength - 2448
BitsPerSample - 8 8 8
Compression - 1 (None)
PhotometricInterpretation - 6
ImageDescription - Digital StillCamera
Make - Traveler
Model - DC-8300
StripOffset - 312
Orientation - Top left
SamplesPerPixel - 3
RowsPerStrip - 24
StripByteCount - 720
XResolution - 72
YResolution - 72
ResolutionUnit - Inch
Software - 2.06SG
DateTime - 2008:02:24 01:24:41
YCbCrSubSampling - 2
YCbCrPositioning - Centered
ExifOffset - 1462
ExposureTime - 1/2.7 seconds
FNumber - 2.80
ExposureProgram - Normal program
ISOSpeedRatings - 50
ExifVersion - 0220
DateTimeOriginal - 2008:02:24 01:24:41
DateTimeDigitized - 2008:02:24 01:24:41
ComponentsConfiguration - YCbCr
ShutterSpeedValue - 1/3 seconds
ApertureValue - F 2.83
ExposureBiasValue - 0.00
MaxApertureValue - F 2.93
MeteringMode - Center weighted average
LightSource - Auto
Flash - Not fired
FlashPixVersion - 0100
ColorSpace - sRGB
ExifImageWidth - 3264
ExifImageHeight - 2448
InteroperabilityOffset - 2086
FileSource - DSC - Digital still camera
CustomRendered - Normal process
ExposureMode - Auto
White Balance - Auto
DigitalZoomRatio - 1.00 x
FocalLengthIn35mmFilm - 35 mm
SceneCaptureType - Standard
GainControl - None
Contrast - Normal
Saturation - Normal
Sharpness - Normal
SubjectDistanceRange - Unknown

Maker Note (Vendor): -

Thumbnail: -
ImageWidth - 160
ImageLength - 120
BitsPerSample - 8 8 8
Compression - 1 (None)
PhotometricInterpretation - 6
StripOffset - 2112
Orientation - Top left
SamplesPerPixel - 3
RowsPerStrip - 120
StripByteCount - 38400
XResolution - 72
YResolution - 72
ResolutionUnit - Inch
YCbCrSubSampling - 2
YCbCrPositioning - Centered

Zitat von DC-XZ6:

ImageWidth - 3648
ImageLength - 2736
BitsPerSample - 8 8 8
Compression - 1 (None)
PhotometricInterpretation - 6
ImageDescription - Digital StillCamera
Make - Supra
Model - DC-XZ6
StripOffset - 336
Orientation - Top left
SamplesPerPixel - 3
RowsPerStrip - 24
StripByteCount - 792
XResolution - 72
YResolution - 72
ResolutionUnit - Inch
Software - Ver 1.01 SG
DateTime - 2008:02:24 01:28:05
YCbCrSubSampling - 2
YCbCrPositioning - Centered
ExifOffset - 1594
ExposureTime - 1/7.1 seconds
FNumber - 2.80
ExposureProgram - Normal program
ISOSpeedRatings - 100
ExifVersion - 0220
DateTimeOriginal - 2008:02:24 01:28:05
DateTimeDigitized - 2008:02:24 01:28:05
ShutterSpeedValue - 1/7 seconds
ApertureValue - F 2.83
ExposureBiasValue - 0.00
MaxApertureValue - F 2.83
MeteringMode - Center weighted average
LightSource - Auto
Flash - Not fired
FlashPixVersion - 0100
ColorSpace - sRGB
FileSource - DSC - Digital still camera
CustomRendered - Normal process
ExposureMode - Auto
White Balance - Auto
DigitalZoomRatio - 1.00 x
FocalLengthIn35mmFilm - 37 mm
SceneCaptureType - Standard
GainControl - None
Contrast - Soft
Saturation - High
Sharpness - Soft
SubjectDistanceRange - Unknown

Maker Note (Vendor): -

Thumbnail: -
ImageWidth - 160
ImageLength - 120
BitsPerSample - 8 8 8
Compression - 1 (None)
PhotometricInterpretation - 6
StripOffset - 2296
Orientation - Top left
SamplesPerPixel - 3
RowsPerStrip - 120
StripByteCount - 38400
XResolution - 72
YResolution - 72
ResolutionUnit - Inch
YCbCrSubSampling - 2
YCbCrPositioning - Centered

24.02.08, 01:53:21

WILT

(Advanced Member)

Beiträge: 63
Registriert seit: 21.02.08

Vivitar dc83000, Traveler DC-XZ6

There is still something odd about the figures for the 2 cameras !
I have many files taken straight from the 8.1 and kept as
" virgin " data and they are all about 23 Mb and yet the largest file Ive seen yet from the 10.1 is 19 Mb .How can this be if there is no compression?

WILT

24.02.08, 04:31:58

dl3mcj

(Moderator)

Beiträge: 7636
Registriert seit: 26.12.05

PDC-3350
GR-DX25E
DC-5300/6200/8600/80sz/XZ6/120
Slimline X6
IS-12/SZ-7
HD-10XI/DV-23HD
WC0001/...2B
MD87021
SU1071

Uncompressed files have identical file size. The file size of compressed files depends on the strukture of the picture. Something like gras will need much more file space than a dark night sky.

I repeated Kackis test with 3 pictures each. Filesize (Windows file properties - Size):

10 MP: 20.002.552 Bytes (1.365.533)
8 MP: 16.021.212 Bytes (938.421)

(In brackets: compressed files of black sky)

Do you have identical filesize in TIFF mode?

Grüße aus Eching
Peter

24.02.08, 07:25:51

WILT

(Advanced Member)

Beiträge: 63
Registriert seit: 21.02.08

Vivitar dc83000, Traveler DC-XZ6

I agree that compressed files will vary with content but Kacki said that the Supra Tif files were NOT compressed. I shall also do a test and report my findings, Perhaps the Vivitar had different firmware but I doubt it.

WILT

24.02.08, 11:37:47

Kacki

(Experte)

Beiträge: 4535
Registriert seit: 21.06.04

Tevion SZ8
(August '12)
Traveler DC-XZ6
(Juni '07)
Canon EOS 400D
(Herbst '06)
Traveler DC 8300
(Herbst '05)
Traveler DC 5300
(Herbst '03)
Olympus C920Z
(Herbst '99)

Zitat von WILT:

[...] I have many files taken straight from the 8.1 and kept as
" virgin " data and they are all about 23 Mb [...]

This is making me wonder. 23 MB from a 8.1 MP camera... must be a different TIFF-structure?! Was it from the Vivitar DC8300? I assume that this camera is the similar Premier clone as our Traveler DC8300, so I can't explain such a large file size. If it is from another camera, I could imagine that the TIF has an extended color depth, e.g. 36 bit. Could you drop the EXIF data here?

24.02.08, 13:01:52

WILT

(Advanced Member)

Beiträge: 63
Registriert seit: 21.02.08

Vivitar dc83000, Traveler DC-XZ6

Yes the 8.1 mp camera I have is the Vivitar version .I am not sure it gives exif data whilst in Tiff mode I,ll check.
I have to do some other work on my PC for an hour or so
I'll get back later.

WILT

24.02.08, 14:00:52

WILT

(Advanced Member)

Beiträge: 63
Registriert seit: 21.02.08

Vivitar dc83000, Traveler DC-XZ6

Hi I,m back with you after being over to the farm next door,
I have found out that Elements was recording the file size wrongly and misleading me. The original of this lamb born 3 days ago turns out to be 29MB according to Paintshop Pro so the Mystery is solved.The only mystery remaining is why Traveler don't mention the Tiff option of the DC-6XZ in the manual or their adverts !!!

http://home.freeuk.com/wlt001/lamb.jpg

modified by dl3mcj: to reduce traffic I integrated the photograph into the post

Dateianhang:

lamb.jpg (152.89 KByte | 511 mal heruntergeladen | 76.29 MByte Traffic)

24.02.08, 19:11:52

HondaNC27

(Experte)

Beiträge: 4179
Registriert seit: 07.05.06

Traveler DC 5300 / 6900 / XZ6;Analog Canon EOS500N Canon EOS 1000D;Traveler HS9; Traveler DC-5300, baugleich Maginon DC-5350

I had yesterday learned by your report, thats the DC-XZ6 own a Tiff - Option. Nice Pics and Paintings. Thanks to you.

Greetings from HondaNC27 (hondaknipser)

Gruß HondaNC27

24.02.08, 19:50:25

WILT

(Advanced Member)

Beiträge: 63
Registriert seit: 21.02.08

Vivitar dc83000, Traveler DC-XZ6

Your Welcome,

How do you like my honda ?

http://home.freeuk.com/wlt001/newhondaEng.jpg

modified by dl3mcj: to reduce traffic I integrated the photograph into the post

Dateianhang:

newhondaEng.jpg (103.67 KByte | 479 mal heruntergeladen | 48.49 MByte Traffic)

24.02.08, 20:47:27

HondaNC27

(Experte)

Beiträge: 4179
Registriert seit: 07.05.06

Traveler DC 5300 / 6900 / XZ6;Analog Canon EOS500N Canon EOS 1000D;Traveler HS9; Traveler DC-5300, baugleich Maginon DC-5350

Zitat von WILT:

Your Welcome,

How do you like my honda ?[/IMG]

Hi Bill, thats an very, great Oldtimer and also my first bike 1981 with 250 ccm, at second, I drive the same bike with 400 ccm. wink2

<==CB250N

And the next Motobike 1992 ,who follows, was a Honda CB1, called: Small racing devil rofl

I sold it, it is 2 years ago!

<==CB1

..but last not least, my new, old Bike. Honda XL600V. It is not so fast, but it's comfortably for old people! lachen

<==XL600V

Greetings from HondaNC27 (hondaknipser)

Gruß HondaNC27

25.02.08, 13:33:24

WILT

(Advanced Member)

Beiträge: 63
Registriert seit: 21.02.08

Vivitar dc83000, Traveler DC-XZ6

Yes I would like to change this for the 400 cc version ,

This bike is very comfortable but it is TOO SLOW even for my 60 yrs. lachen

25.02.08, 14:41:31

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